|  | Topic : How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt |  |
| | | GerPa | | Jupiter |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 15 Jan 2018 - 10:06 Post title : How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt | | | The reason to change the drive belt was two fold. Damage and a continual whirring noise at 65 to 75klms /hr.
1: The belt suffered a very small stone damage on the RHS outer edge, 4mm in length. The Photos below depict the damage.
Note the 4mm split directly underneath the two highlighted ribs
Note the side of the belt depicting the split from the root of the tooth to the top belt ribbed cover
Note the scuffed area in the root of the tooth in the middle of the picture where the stone had obviously been lodged. Also note in this picture the scuffing on the other end of all the teeth on the inside edge of the belt.
The source of this scuffing has never been found despite extensive inspections, My only thought is that it could have been caused by purposely running the belt misaligned for a short period during test to alter it's tracking. ( these exercises were fruitless as the belt makes its own mind up where it wants to run) . it should also be noted that in trying to eliminate the 65 to 75klm/He whirring noise I changed the Rear wheel bearing, Upgraded the already upgraded Cush Drive bearings and Stripped and inspected the rear brakes and also changed the rear brake pads from Sintered Bronze back to composite pads.
Disclaimer. First of all the comments below are from My actual experience in doing the job and from picking up some ideas from a person who has done this before, but actually doing the job differently. My belt suffered a 4mm crack in the RHS edge and I was not prepared to take the chance of it shitting itself out the back in the middle of no where at the most un opportune time.
My bike is fitted with Matts rear axel adjusters.
The Triumph Workshop manual is pretty much next to useless in how it explains to do this job.(Sections 15.9 and 14.6) The only use for it is to obtain the correct Torque Specification for the reassembly.
My experience is that in a well equipped workshop with a elevating work platform and pneumatic tools this job initially would take 2hrs but with some experience it could easily be done in 1.25 to 1.5hrs.
Step1: Place the bike on an Elevating Work Platform or a similar system to allow jacking operation.( get it up off the ground)
Step 2:Remove the Upper Drive Belt Chrome Guard, The Front Drive Pulley Cover that exposes the radiator Header tank.
Step 3:Jack the bike up and remove the rear wheel which allows for the drive belt to be removed from the rear drive pulley.
Bike with Rear Wheel Removed.
Step 4:Remove the Radiator Header tank and ( contrary to the service manual ) let it hand down on it's hoses. then remove the header tank mounting plate that exposes the front drive pulley and remove the two (2) white roller spacers on the mounting bolts, taking note in the direction of taper of the two spacers
Step 5: Remove the (5) front Drive Pulley retaining bolts to allow the Drive pulley to be removed. (On My Bike we could NOT slide the drive belt out over the flange of the front pulley). also be aware of the Indexing type Locking washer behind the front drive pulley ( witness mark it's location to the pulley for refitting.
Removing Front Drive Pulley.
Front Drive Pulley with indexing lock washer removed.
Front Drive Pulley Mount or Gearbox output flange.
Step 6: Remove both back shock absorbers or at least loosen the top mounts and remove the bottom mounts from the swing arm.
This is where we differed from the person who had said they had done this numerous times before as on my bike we could NOT move the drive belt along from RHS to LHS of the front of the Trailing arm and the back of the engine, We just could not get enough room and could not remove the spacer from the LHS of the swing arm and could not see how we would turn the belt on its side to feed it out. so we decided to remove the swing arm completely which most probably made the job faster as it was absolutely no hassle to remove the complete swing arm assembly.
Step 7:With both rear shock removed we then removed the Swing arm pivot bolt retaining nut and washer, this then exposes the Swing Arm adjusting must which triumph says you need a special tool (3880104 )for, Again this is not the case and you can utilise any large bladed screwdriver or a piece of 1'x 1'8' Flat bar to unloosen this adjuster and it is virtually only finger tight at 6nm torque. just loosening this Adjuster allows the swing arm to become sloppy in it location and allows you to easily withdraw the pivot bolt completely allowing the swing arm to drop down out of the bike which allows you to remove or change the belt.
The swing arm adjuster. you can see the slots that can easily be undone with out the special tool 3880104
The Swing arm removed with the old belt in place
Step 8:Rerplace the belt with the new belt, if for some reason the old belt is being reused ensure that it goes back on in the same direction it was prior to removal. Also while the swing arm is removed take the opportunity to clean around the spacers at either end and check the RHS needle roller bearing for lubricant, the LHS is a sealed bearing.
Step 9: Refit the swing arm and push the pivot bolt back in and readjust the swing arm adjuster nut to 6nm torque. then fit the retainer washer and nut and torque that up to 110nm Torque,
Step 10: Refit the Front Drive Pulley taking care to ensure that the indexing lock washer is correctly located, with this in place slide the belt back over the front pulley and refit the 5 retainer bolts and torque them to 105Nm Torque. To torque these bolts you will need to have the bike in 1st gear and apply the rear brake.
With the above been done it is then just a matter of reassembling the rest of the removed components ensuring that they are correctly torqued and that the rear wheel align is correct and that the belt is adjusted. I adjust my belt with a 10lb force underneath the belt to 18 to 22mm slack and align both sides ( using the triumph Alignment tool) as close as possible to dead even straight ( both sides exactly the same)
Using my recorded adjustment alignment figures as a base figure, My experience is that over 52000klms the belt has stretched virtually ( Zero - Nothing ) as my figures are pretty much the same as when I first recorded them in 2012.
One other well known Forum Member / Thunderbird Rider sent me his latest figures and He has experienced about 2mm stretch in 125000klms.( People there belts Do Not Stretch and if they do it is very minimal )
I hope this procedure settles some of the confusion that has surrounded the changing of the drive belt. It is no big hassle but I am 99.9% sure you wouldn't be doing this job on the side of the road. as a post note since riding the bike the 65 to 75Klm/Hr whirring noise has gone.
 
|  May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS   ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
| | Post edited by GerPa on 16 Jan 2018 - 05:42 |
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| | | Southern_Ranger | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 14/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 368 | | Location | : | Aylesbury, Bucks, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 15 Jan 2018 - 20:47 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: GerPa) | | | Nice write up GerPa
| 1700 Supercharged TBird. Southern Ranger, AKA John
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 15 Jan 2018 - 22:05 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: GerPa) | | | Well done Gerry
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Dags | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 01/11/2013 | | Posts | : | 468 | | Location | : | N.S.W, Australia |
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| | Posted : 15 Jan 2018 - 22:31 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: GerPa) | | | Nice dot points and photos.
Cheers
| Dags
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 02:57 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: Dags) | | | Original Version Edited to include text and pictures showing the reason for the Belt Change.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | fab | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,515 | | Location | : | wyong, nsw, Australia |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 05:11 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: GerPa) | | | so did you use your old pulleys with the new belt? how many kmh on the belt?
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Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go
ahh f**k im deep
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 05:53 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: fab) | | | fab wrote:
so did you use your old pulleys with the new belt? how many kmh on the belt? |
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Yes Jamie. The same original pulleys front and back.and the bike has done 52000klms
This picture depicts the wear on the Crown of the Teeth on every tooth on the belt and As I said in the text I have inspected and cleaned those pulleys tooth by tooth at least 3 times looking for what would contributed to the Tooth Crown Wear on the belt.
Both Pulleys looked faultless.
What I have noticed that since I fitted the new second hand belt the 65 to 75klm/hr distinctive whirring noise seems to disappeared which I can only put down to the Tooth Crown Wear.  This also still mystifies me as the wear on the belt theoretically should NOT be touching the pulley,
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
| | Post edited by GerPa on 17 Jan 2018 - 00:45 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 07:13 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: GerPa) | | | Gerry I reckon you may have had something stuck in a pulley for a while, not a rock as it would have made the belt jump which creates a terrible noise, something else.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 20:32 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: Leethal) | | |
Leethal wrote:
Gerry I reckon you may have had something stuck in a pulley for a while, not a rock as it would have made the belt jump which creates a terrible noise, something else. |
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Lee: Do you know how to calculate if the pulleys "Hunt" or are "Random", You would have to think for what your suggesting is that they are "Random". The wear on the belt is as if you had run a Angle Grinder along the inside edge as it is identical on every tooth.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | AleXL4 | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 17/09/2012 | | Posts | : | 571 | | Location | : | Gympie, Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 21 Jan 2018 - 06:51 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: Southern_Ranger) | | | Well presented Gerry, as it make the procedure more acceptable to the novice DIY Mechanics like myself!
Well done Mate.
| Enjoying the Journey
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 03:39 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: GerPa) | | | May sound silly but a camera mounted for belt travel as you are riding. Something you don't get to see. Could it be possible thrashing the throttle makes the belt ride outside its parameters in your particular case, climbing the edge?
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 05:42 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt (Re: rayglo) | | |
rayglo wrote:
May sound silly but a camera mounted for belt travel as you are riding. Something you don't get to see. Could it be possible thrashing the throttle makes the belt ride outside its parameters in your particular case, climbing the edge? |
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Ray, There are people out here that ride a lot harder than I do, and in particular a couple of guys that have Blown TBirds that are delivering nearly twice the horsepower and they have not seen this type of wear.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 08:08 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | And then 125klms later this happened, So you might guess I was slightly pissed off when it snapped under acceleration in First Gear.
Not the most gracious way to get picked up from outside the Pub.
  
This belt that has just failed was my (Spare Belt) near new belt that had 5086Klms on it and be rest assured that I had througherly inspected every tooth and ever rib on both sides of that belt and that both Pulleys were througherly cleaned and inspected prior to fitting the belt on Tuesday.
To my absolute astonishment the local dealer here in Mackay actually had a belt in stock and because of my Extradoniary Good Looks and Magnetic Personality They only charged Me  A$472.65. The New belt now runs EXACTLY in the middle and in all the life of the bike it has never ever ran central. Plus the rear axel alignment figures LHS 76.23 and RHS 76.34 are within .01 &.02mm of the original figures from back in 2012.
So can I change Drive Belts? Yep 2 in under a week.
p.s. Below is the Triumph Swing Arm Adjuster tool that I fabricated up out of a old Cat Socket and some 1" x 1/8" Stainless Steel Flat bar.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
| | Post edited by GerPa on 23 Jan 2018 - 20:04 |
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| | | AZCactus | | Taranis | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 4,524 | | Location | : | AZ |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 09:01 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | |
GerPa wrote:
So can I change Drive Belts? Yep 2 in under a week.... |
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That's crazy Gerry...what the hell is going on in the Outback?? 
I'd like to know more about Step 9: Refit the swing arm and push the pivot bolt back in and readjust the swing arm adjuster nut to 6nm torque.
Can you actually "adjust" the swingarm or only apply a certain amount of torque to the adjuster nut and that's it? What's the best (easy) way to check the swingarm adjustment (alignment)? Thnx.
| 2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 11:51 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: AZCactus) | | | Rich
Note: To remove the swing are completely and AWAY you from the bike you will need to remove the rear brake line securing clamp underneath the LHS of the swing arm.
It really is very simple. First of all I believe contrary to what other saying that you can remove a spacer from the LHS that it is actually impossible to remove ANY/Either spacers from the swing arm. The Spacer on the RHS is captive as the inner race of the needle roller on that side and also has a lip seal sealing it from contaminates and it actually thrusts up against the inside surface of the bike frame on that side. On the LHS the spacer is about maybe 10 or 12mm thick and is also captive within a lip seal and protrudes from the swing are maybe 2 or 3 mm and it sits up against the inner race of a sealed roller bearing on that side.
So once you remove the pivot bolt nut and washer from the LHS, you need to push the pivot bolt towards the RHS of the bike enough to just enough to expose the Swing Arm Adjuster which is threaded into the bike chassis from the inside of the frame. At this stage the swing arm is still held in square within the frame with the adjuster nut, Note:(Initially for reinstalling purposes, We took note of the depth from the outside frame and the O'clock positions of the slots in the adjuster nut). Once you loosen the Adjuster nut (6Nm or 4FtLbs) the slightest bit the swing arm becomes free enough to totally with draw the pivot bolt and remove the complete swing arm.
When refitting the swing arm it just a matter of lifting it up into the frame location and sliding the Pivot bolt through enough into the Adjusting Nut to still allow you to get the adjusting spanner into the slots of the adjusting nut and adjust it up firm and the check the tension of 6Nm or 4FtLbs Torque, as soon as you screw it up firm you will feel it hold the Swing arm in its correct position and allows to push the Swing arm Pivot bolt all the way home and then refit the washer and nut and Tension if up to 105NM or 80Ft Lbs.
While I had the swing are out I cleaned and relubed the needle roller bearing in the RHS of the Swing Arm and removed the Adjuster nut out of the LHS Chassis and cleaned it and relubed it and refitted it.
Then sit back and Say "Shit that was easy",give your self a pat on the back and have a beer.
I hope that explanation clarifies it for you.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 12:16 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | Now just to complete the job, I did a little preventative job along the way to try and stop the stones and shit getting getting in there.
One of the Mechanics I talked to along the way who worked on Triumphs and HD's said that he saw more belt problems with debris damage on Triumphs than the HD,s because he believe the HD,s rear drive pulley is more enclosed.
Based on that comment I visited the HD dealership and yep their belts are more enclosed.
If you look at the picture below of the Thunderbird Drive Hub located in the swing arm and take a straight for line for the underside of the belt you will see there is a Hugh are where debris can enter the read drive pulley, Because of Drive Direction it can only enter at the
bottom.
The next photo also shows you that about 20+% of the inside of the Pulley is also exposed.
The next photo ( Which some people may think is a little Agricultural) depicts the 200mmx60mmx3mm Polyurethane extension that I have added / pop riveted to the inside of the lower belt guard to act as a deflector to stop and rubbish that comes from the front wheel.
The last photo which is painted depicts the extension looking through the wheel towards the belt. Please note it is an optical illusion as there is still actually about 10 to 12mm clearance between the extension/deflector and the drive belt. Unless you belt is extremely loose it cannot hit the extension / deflector as it is attached to the swing arm and travels with the belt.
This extension can only help and cannot cause any hindrances and can easily be done by undoing 3 retainers and removing the Lower Belt guard from the bike.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | Linkdog | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,923 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 14:15 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | Wow Gerry, that's just shit for luck. No doubt a great Wright up .
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| | | AZCactus | | Taranis | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 4,524 | | Location | : | AZ |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 17:39 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | Yes, I follow the disassemble/reassemble process and thanx.
What I'm inquiring about is "swingarm adjustment and or alignment ". Apparently there's really no adjustment/alignment options, you just torque the adjusting nut to 6 Nm and the swingarm sets to a predetermined location. Then you reassemble remaining hardware. Correct?
Or is this where you can make an adjustment? ..."We took note of the depth from the outside frame and the O'clock positions of the slots in the adjuster nut".
| 2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 23 Jan 2018 - 20:13 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: AZCactus) | | | Rich. That is correct, you cannot adjust the location or alignment. The adjuster just sets the preload and holds the swing arm within its predetermined location within the frame. If you left it loose the swing arm would slide sideways along the pivot bolt and if you over tightened it then if would make the swing are stiff and not move freely up and down.
The reason we initially took note of the locations was because we were unaware of how the thing came a part and was a reference to go back to when we reassembled.(this step is not really necessary now we know how it all comes apart .
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
| | Post edited by GerPa on 24 Jan 2018 - 06:43 |
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 27 Jan 2018 - 12:12 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | |
GerPa wrote:
This extension can only help and cannot cause any hindrances and can easily be done by undoing 3 retainers and removing the Lower Belt guard from the bike.
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This last comment is not quite right,
I had reason to undo the Lower Belt Guard and with the Belt Tensioned and the Wheel in place and with the extension fitted to the guard you cannot remove the guard UNLESS you loosen the wheel and belt off. Thus if you were planning on putting the extension onto the lower guard you can remove the guard with everything in place but you would have to loosen it off to fit the modified/extended lower guard back onto the swing arm.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 27 Feb 2018 - 09:16 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | Just to add a bit more Logic to the Fn Drive Belt issues that seemed to have plagued the Thunderbird.
I just want to make some observations that will help owners understand this Phenomena. and this is all My Opinion but is based on a shit load of experience and chasing noises in the rear end of the bike .
I have literally spent 100's of hours crawling around and adjusting and changing and understanding this and other components of the Thunderbird rear end and I am thoroughly convinced that the major cause of the dreaded Chirp or belt whir is Off 2 things and they are caused by the " Pulleys and Tension".
Today I got up real close with Two of my Mates Harley's and the First one of them which is about 30 yrs old and the Belt was set about 3 days ago up by the most reputable Harley Mechanics in the area. It was actually "Banjo Tight" maybe 3 or 4 mm max movement and never made a murmur, The second one was a relatively new model about 4 or 5 yrs old and it had about 5 or 6 mm free play and like wise not a murmur. From my experience in the last couple of weeks & months the tighter ours are the nosier they are and I can prove this by adjusting the belt .2 of a mm gives about 3mm difference in tension, I was adjusting mine in the air and running at an adjustment of around the 12 to 15 mm and getting noises, if I run at 18 to 20 mm movement I get the belt whir at around the 70 klm/hr speed, I f I loosen it to the 23 to 25 mm tension the noise goes away. So one has got to ask what the difference between the 2 brands of bike as the drive systems are virtually identical and are made by the same manufacturer " Gates" , The answer is the Pulleys. and can only be the pulleys as I am let to believe that in the early development of the Thunderbird drive system, =Triumph and Gates developed the special drive pulleys ( we have covered this previously years ago) with a special coating or finish so that they would not wear out, Vs the Harley pulleys never had this coating or surface finish and do wear out.I am of the opinion that most of our problem is caused by the coating on the pulleys and if you run tight you can actually hear the belt meshing against the pulley teeth and this is more pronounced on the front pulley than on the back and as I have said above loosen it off and it does actually get less and will go away. I have actually run the bike jacked up in both scenarios all the way through the gears and the tighter we made the belt the nosier it became until one till we actually had it at 50 mm slack and it was whisper quiet.
So my opinion is that the real cause is the Pulley Coating, We cant do much about the pulleys but my recommendation is run the belt as close as possible to dead straight,the idea of running it "On the Piss" or shorter on the LHS by up to a mm is Bullshit ( as the belt will make up its mind where it wants to run ) adjust it with the bike on the ground ( not in the air as it shortens the slack distance when it is in the air and is tighter when you put it down) and run the belt on the loose side of the Deflection measurements and up to 25 mm will not cause a problem, There are numerous owners that are already running loose versus the Triumph Spec.
Come in Spinner
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
| | Post edited by GerPa on 27 Feb 2018 - 20:27 |
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| | | Hornet | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 05/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 1,294 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 27 Feb 2018 - 13:27 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | I may have mentioned this previously. On my 2010 I had the chip and constantly fiddled with it, as was stated running more slack seemed to be the ticket as well as a bit of candle wax on the outer sides of the belt.
On my 2014 Commander this has not been an issue. Luck maybe, but I've noticed fewer owners of the Commanders and LT's complain about this issue.
Just an observation.
| You'll never be first but you might be next
2014 Commander
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 27 Feb 2018 - 22:02 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | Gerry I think you are on the mark, mine runs about 20-25mm deflection without any noises. The SM does give measurements for bike on the ground versus up on a jack.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 01 Mar 2018 - 03:13 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: Leethal) | | | When I bought the Indian,which also uses belt drive,the first thing I noticed was,when the belt is cold,it has atleast 1-1 1/2 inches of free play or up and down movement in the center of it.However,after it's been driven for a while,that up and down movement decreases to 1/2-3/4 of an inch up and down movement.So that means, Triumph was WRONG with their super tight belt setting,and I was RIGHT when I loosened my belt and passed that info on to the rest of you guys.Live and learn.I did,and continue to do so.
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| | | AZCactus | | Taranis | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 4,524 | | Location | : | AZ |
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| | Posted : 01 Mar 2018 - 03:55 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: davetac1) | | | geeze Dave, you blame Triumph for buying an Indian (because new Thunderbirds weren't available) and now the belt....
Btw my belt is fine, almost 3/4" slack when cold.
| 2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore
| | Post edited by AZCactus on 01 Mar 2018 - 17:01 |
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 01 Mar 2018 - 08:43 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: davetac1) | | | We all know the ins and out of the Belt adjustment we only been there a million or so times. My observation or IMO ( above) was that the ONLY difference between the Triumph and HD Drive Systems is the Triumph "Special Coating" on the pulleys.
I reckon that if Triumph had NORMAL pulleys like HD then there would never have been a problem on the Thunderbird.
Putting it in rough terms HD have Hard Belts running on Soft Pulleys and no matter what the tension loose or tight there is no noise. Triumph Have Hard Belts on Hard Pulleys and all we got was a pain the arse. My understanding is that the HD's are vulnerable to Cush Dive Bearing failures and that is coz no one gives a rats about tension.
Capishe?
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | AZCactus | | Taranis | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 4,524 | | Location | : | AZ |
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| | Posted : 01 Mar 2018 - 16:45 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | GerPa wrote:
...I reckon that if Triumph had NORMAL pulleys like HD then there would never have been a problem on the Thunderbird.... |
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Well it begs the question...how much longer might Tbird's treated gear and pulley outlast an HD/Indian setup?? I have no idea.
| 2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 01 Mar 2018 - 20:13 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: AZCactus) | | | Rich. I have never heard of anyone on this Forum Changing pulleys for Wear Reasons,
Ol Dave did 120,000 miles and apparently there is some old guy in West Australia and did over 230,000 KLms ( similar distance) and only ever changed a clutch do to towing a trailer, My mates Harley is well over the 150,000 Klm mark and they still looked ok when I checked his belt.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | AZCactus | | Taranis | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 4,524 | | Location | : | AZ |
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| | Posted : 02 Mar 2018 - 02:16 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: GerPa) | | | Gerry iyo, do you see a practical benefit of Triumph's 'hard' gear/pulley approach to Harley's soft alternative?
| 2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 02 Mar 2018 - 08:39 Post title : Re: How to Change the "Fn" Drive Belt 2nd Time. (Re: AZCactus) | | | AZCactus wrote:
Gerry iyo, do you see a practical benefit of Triumph's 'hard' gear/pulley approach to Harley's soft alternative? |
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Rich. The answer is No. Not being from an Engineering background but from being a "Dumb Arse Motor Mechanic" with a reasonable amount of experience including that other place called "The School of Hard Knocks & Common Sense". my dumb arse deduction is that there is a shit load more Harleys out there with drive belt systems than what there are Triumphs so if its not a problem on them then why cause a problem . The real problem is Triumph have never recognised it as a problem and us "Dumb Arses" have found our way around and how to deal with it.
We covered this very subject many moons ago, early on in the Life of the Forum in that Triumph should have been part of the Forum and monitoring what was going on out in the big world vs sitting back with the head up their arse relying on dodgy dealers that they are screwing over and how do we know they were not?? there could have been a "Ghost Rider" or two out there but none of us ever picked up on anyone that could have been and I can tell you over the years we have flushed out a few Wanna Be's.like Sunnyday and Thunder strike.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
| | Post edited by GerPa on 02 Mar 2018 - 08:40 |
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